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Wednesday, September 27, 2006
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
When push comes to torture
by Jonah Goldberg
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When confronted with the assertion that the Soviet Union and the United States were moral equivalents, William F. Buckley responded that if one man pushes an old lady into an oncoming bus and another man pushes an old lady out of the way of a bus, we should not denounce them both as men who push old ladies around.

In other words, context matters.

Not according to some. Led by Time magazine's Andrew Sullivan, opponents of the CIA's harsh treatment of high-value terrorists have grown comfortable comparing Bush's America to, among other evils, Stalin's Russia.

The tactic hasn't worked, partly because many decent Americans understand that abuse intended to foil a murder plot is not the same as torturing political dissidents, religious minorities and other prisoners of conscience. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was not asked to renounce his faith or sign a false confession when he was reportedly waterboarded. His suffering wasn't intended as a form of punishment. The sole aim was to stop an ongoing murder conspiracy, which is what al-Qaida is. If accounts from such unbiased sources as ABC News' Brian Ross are to be believed, his suffering saved American lives.

Comparing CIA facilities to Stalin's gulag may sound righteous, but it is a species of the same moral relativism that denounces all pushers of old ladies equally.

Consider killing. In every society in the world, murder is punished more harshly than non-lethal torture. If I waterboard you, or lock you in my basement with Duran Duran blasting at you 24/7, even if I beat you for hours with a rubber hose, my punishment will be less severe than if I murder you, simply because it is worse to take a life deliberately than to cause pain, even sadistically. We all understand this. Would you rather take some lumps in a dungeon for a month, or take a dirt nap forever?

Yet, according to the torture prohibitionists, there must be a complete ban on anything that even looks like torture, regardless of context, even though we'd never dream of a blanket ban on killing.

One reason for this disconnect is that we've thought a lot about killing and barely at all about torture. Almost no one opposes killing in all circumstances; wars sometimes need to be fought, the hopelessly suffering may require relief, we reserve the right to self-defense. Indeed, the law recognizes a host of nuances when it comes to homicide, and the place where everybody draws an unambiguous line on killing is at something we call "murder." Continued...

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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Subject: Hosekuervo
so, what does "being smart," entail? Can you be a little more specific? If we can save lives without being "mean," I would love to know how we can do that. Please be thorough in your response.

It's simple
The reason we shouldn't torture is simple.
I frankly don't care if we boil terrorists in oil after we castrate them. I'd say go for it, if it worked.
When you torture people, they give you bad intelligence-
When you get bad intelligence, you make bad decisions.
Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi was waterboarded until he said that Iraq was training terrorists in the use of biological weapons. The administration used this incorrect info as a cornerstone in their case for war. Later, it came out that there was no way that al Libbi could know this information.
The terrorists have cells in over 100 countries. We desperately need allies to win the war on terror. If we alienate them by torturing people, then that is just plain counter-productive.
This isn't about civils rights for terrorists or any of the nonsense that some on the right spew.
That's a load of crap, and you know it. It's about being smart and defeating the terrorists with our brains. Don't confuse being tough with being smart.
We've been trying TOUGH for a while now and we all see how well it's been working. Let's try smart for a change.
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